tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post8966977892211991664..comments2023-06-24T07:43:49.683-04:00Comments on Public Vigil: Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester and the issue of "homosexual marriage"Michaelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-56560828871229941712011-07-18T14:11:35.621-04:002011-07-18T14:11:35.621-04:00Christian 1954. I deleted your comment. The reason...Christian 1954. I deleted your comment. The reason is that your name links to "aol.com". This looks like a form of spam to me. If you don't stop linking to a commercial site, I will not allow any of your posts.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-33965347412381097792011-07-12T16:52:25.454-04:002011-07-12T16:52:25.454-04:00Sassy. I think the connection between Clark and Sh...Sassy. I think the connection between Clark and Shanley is more ideological. Shanley was one of the first priests to openly support active homosexuality as morally acceptable. At the time he was considered a spokesperson for the "gay liberation" movement. He was the chaplain of DignityUSA.<br /><br />Under Archbishop Medeiros of Boston he was continually reprimanded and promise to change his talks to be in conformity with Church teaching, but then would continue to spread false doctrine about homosexuality. I'm sure this appealed to Bishop Clark and also to Father Callan. Medeiros eventually removed Shanley from a position of ministering to homosexuals in Boston.<br /><br />After Medeiros passed away in 1983, Shanley pretty much picked up where he left off. Many people have disparaged the reputation of Cardinal Medeiros by implying that he facilitated Shanley. (One of those is Bill Donahue of the Catholic League.) This just isn't true as far as I can tell. Medeiros inherited the problem of Shanley from Cardinal Cushing and after he died Shanley had a much easier time under Cardinal Law.<br /><br />Medeiros was the Archbishop of Boston from 1970-1983 which was a very turbulent time for Boston including the issue of bussing. He didn't have time to focus all his efforts on one scandalous priest.<br /><br />Finally, I want to post a link to a <a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0004-RCAB-00027-00034.pdf" rel="nofollow">letter from Medeiros to the Vatican about the problem of homosexuality among priests</a> and in the seminaries. Medeiros complained that some of the active homosexuals he had removed from seminaries under his control were then welcomed by other seminaries. I wonder if Bishop Clark was one of those who was accepting these active homosexuals.<br /><br />Here is a quote from Cardinal Medeiros:<br /><br />"The danger in seminaries, Your Eminence, is obvious. Where large numbers of homosexuals are present in a seminary, other homosexuals are quickly attracted. Other healthier young men tend to be repelled. As a result of the efforts in our seminary, a large number of candidates have been dropped. Yet some of these, who are from other dioceses, have been transferred by their bishops to other seminaries despite complete disclosures from our seminary."Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-18534987539730279862011-07-12T15:33:15.525-04:002011-07-12T15:33:15.525-04:00Thank you for the very thought provoking post and ...Thank you for the very thought provoking post and comments. I did want to add one thought. Bishop Clark's resume mentions that he spent a couple of his undergraduate years at Holy Cross prior to entering the seminary. Might that be the connection (I have to admit, I'm terrible at geography, so I don't know if this is realistic or not).Sassynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-31409729515030283372011-07-09T11:30:34.110-04:002011-07-09T11:30:34.110-04:00Thinkling. Thanks for the link. When you look at t...Thinkling. Thanks for the link. When you look at the chronology, it is just staggering.<br /><br />Here is a new one for you. Maybe you already know about this...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news/2002_08_Orth_UnholyCommunion.htm" rel="nofollow">Father Paul Shanley, the monster</a> that was one of the Boston priests that abused children for so many years, gave a talk at Corpus Christi Church in Rochester in 1985. I don't have to tell you that this was the schismatic church led by Father Callan.<br /><br />One woman, Wilma Higgs, was so upset with what she heard that she wrote to the Archbishop of Boston, Bernard Law, to register her complaint and to warn him about what this monster was preaching.<br /><br />There is a <a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0008-RCAB-00058.pdf" rel="nofollow">pdf copy of the letter</a> available online. She also sent copies of the letter to Bishop Clark and Father Callan.<br /><br />Here are some excerpts from her letter where she describes the "outlandish statements" she heard:<br /><br />- It is immoral to try to change homosexuals.<br />- When adults have sex with children, the children seduced them. Children may later regret having caused someone to go to prison, knowing that they are the guilty ones.<br />- The Bible does not say that homosexual lifestyle is wrong.<br />- He constantly criticized the Church for not being more sympathetic and accepting [homosexuals] as they are.<br /><br />I'm sure all of this sounds very familiar. <br /><br />Wilma Higgs got a <a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0009-RCAB-00059.pdf" rel="nofollow">canned response from the monster's protector in Boston, Father McCormack</a>. ("Sorry... we'll speak to him...") In the file copy of this letter McCormack adds in handwriting after speaking with the monster:<br />- he feels she basically misunderstood him<br />- [he spoke about] homosexual orientation not behavior since he was forbidden by Medeiros [former Archbishop of Boston] to talk on homosexual activity<br />- I have no reason to believe [he] was supporting efforts to approve homosexual activity<br />- He does promote compassion and understanding for the homosexually oriented! [exclamation point is from original]<br /><br />How sickening is that considering what we now know about this monsters activities as a sexual predator of young men!!!???<br /><br />P.S.<br />I just discovered a <a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/assign/Shanley-Paul-Richard.htm" rel="nofollow">2nd incident of the monster speaking at Rochester</a>. This was in 1977 and was reported to Archbishop Medeiros, who did take action as mentioned above. (I've read some comments that say he tried to remove the monster, but was opposed by the Boston Globe and other liberal advocates of homosexuality.) <a href="http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ma-boston/archives/PatternAndPractice/0004-RCAB-00027-00034.pdf" rel="nofollow">Archbishop Medeiros wrote to the Vatican in 1979</a> detailing the homosexual movement's assault on the Church.<br /><br />I wonder... how many other times was the monster up in Rochester? What was his relationship with Father Callan and Bishop Clark?Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-11644264853205711512011-07-08T13:30:05.173-04:002011-07-08T13:30:05.173-04:00Forgot to add, Tom Peters' analysis in the ARC...Forgot to add, Tom Peters' analysis in the ARCUS article was absolutely excellent.Thinklinghttp://cleansingfiredor.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-19532000551167805852011-07-08T13:27:36.669-04:002011-07-08T13:27:36.669-04:00Michael,
I saw this site about the diocese maybe ...Michael,<br /><br />I saw this site about the diocese maybe six months ago or so, on Deacon Kendra's site IIRC. <br /><br />http://www.thereoughttobealaw.net/<br /><br />The site has a small tinge of Donahue/Voris/etc tone which usually makes me a little more skeptical of its credibility (read, may be trying to make it sound worse than it is). But some of the claims can easily be (and have been--CF) independently verified. So as I did not see you link to it (sorry if I missed if you did), you may add this to your resources.<br /><br />It is nothing but shocking.Thinklinghttp://cleansingfiredor.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-58755135078803861612011-07-08T10:52:20.139-04:002011-07-08T10:52:20.139-04:00Ben and Sassy. I can't imagine what its like t...Ben and Sassy. I can't imagine what its like to live in a diocese where such heterodox practices are not just tolerated but actively promoted. As I said <a href="http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-up-to-you-new-york-ny.html" rel="nofollow">in another article</a>, "Lord, to whom shall we go?"<br /><br />I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but you and other faithful Catholics who have suffered through this desecration of Holy Mother Church are modern day martyrs. Your actions to save the Church are heroic and saintly.<br /><br />I can tell you that the Lord hears your prayers. He uses all of us, even those who have rejected Him. This sensational way that "homosexual marriage" was passed in New York has shined a spotlight on the Catholic leadership in Rochester and Albany which I'm sure is not what they wanted. They may be relishing their "victory" but the national publicity that goes along with it is a real problem for them.<br /><br />Just think. I would never have heard of Bishop Clark if Senator Alesi did not attend the schismatic Spiritus Christi Church. The senator who opened the way for "homosexual marriage" through his decisive vote "worships" at the altar of a church led by heretics that for many years had the blessings of the Bishop of Rochester.<br /><br />Has your group tried to contact Thomas Peters ("the American Papist")? He was just on EWTN and called for Communion to be denied to Gov. Cuomo. I think he would be your best ally at this moment since he is widely respected in the Church and has national prominence. His father is Ed Peters, the canon lawyer.<br /><br />He wrote an article recently about Arcus titled, <a href="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=15195" rel="nofollow">"Exclusive: Who is funding the coordinated attempt to subvert the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and marriage?"</a> You should definitely read it if you haven't already. (Actually, I just was scanning through the comments on Thomas' article and saw one from Sassy.)<br /><br />My guess is that Thomas and Ed Peters aren't aware of the full extent of the situation that faithful Catholics are facing in Rochester and Albany. What about EWTN? Normally, they wouldn't want to get involved in openly criticizing the Church hierarchy, but in this situation I don't see any other choice.<br /><br />Another good one to contact is Johnette Benkovich of Women of Grace. She's a real crusader for the Church. I don't have any connection with her, but I will try to see what I can do to bring this to her attention.<br /><br />Of course it goes without saying that praying the Rosary is essential at times like these. The Blessed Mother hears your prayers. And go to confession often. Try to go once a month.<br /><br />Pray to the blessed children of Fatima: Jacinta, Francisco and Lucia. I think you have another ally in heaven which is Father John Minkler. Is he one of the martyrs that appeared in the third vision of Our Lady of Fatima?<br /><br />St. Therese of Lisieux, you dedicated your life to saving souls from the fires of Hell, pray for us.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-32638537740177846392011-07-08T08:08:52.396-04:002011-07-08T08:08:52.396-04:00FF received funding through Arcus when the latter ...FF received funding through Arcus when the latter group recommended there is strength in numbers...hence the birth of Equally Blessed. Imagine the dismay that I feel that close family members have bought FF's garbage and strongly support them (financial and otherwise).<br /><br />Forgot to add, thank you for the great story! I learned a lot...and I already thought I knew quitena bit :-)Sassynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-4452329012113055792011-07-08T07:24:00.587-04:002011-07-08T07:24:00.587-04:00Good point about subversiveness. Much of what is ...Good point about subversiveness. Much of what is done in our diocese is subversive. When I came into the Church I listened to my priests' homilies for a few years before I started catching on to his code words and what he really meant. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, "he certainly doesn't mean what I think he means, does he?". I went and talked to him and sure enough it turned out he was a hardcore progressive - pro-homosexuality, pro-women's ordination, very anti-tradition. It's sad because it takes some insight to figure out just how progressive some of these people are. Unsuspecting laity are so easily led to the slaughter by these wolves in sheeps' clothing. <br /><br />As to what Bishop Clark "should" do... we could give you a whole list of things he should do, but won't.<br /><br />- stop closing viable schools<br />- stop closing viable churches<br />- stop endorsing women's ordination<br />- stop endorsing a parallel lay hieararchy which runs many of our parishes (with priests mere as assistants)<br />- fire the majority of the school at our "school" which trains many of our diocesan leaders<br /><br />I could go on, but I don't want to further depress you.Ben Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11895692497752102851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-37847016586188574142011-07-08T00:24:01.812-04:002011-07-08T00:24:01.812-04:00Ben. I read your article. I also saw your comment ...Ben. I read your article. I also saw your comment on Archbishop Dolan's blog.<br /><br />Regarding Fortunate Family: I stumbled upon them late in my internet searches for this article. (The order of the article is pretty much the order that I found the information as one thing led to another.) At first they seemed like a legitimate group and I felt guilty even suspecting them of being non-faithful. But I kept searching because it just seemed a bit suspicious. When I found the way they responded to the letter from Ratzinger, I was pretty convinced that they were up to something. So I kept looking, but I still couldn't believe it when I found them joining with other anti-Catholic groups to endorse "homosexual marriage".<br /><br />Did you notice that the "Equally Blessed" announcement and Bishop Clark both used the same term, "beloved children of God"? If you don't know the codewords, you won't catch the real meaning behind what is being said.<br /><br />One thing I want to say. I imagine that there are many family members who are supporting Fortunate Family without understanding their true purpose. Their approach is very deceptive and I don't think they openly endorsed "homosexual marriage" until recently. The methods that the people who control this organization use can only be described as "subversive".<br /><br />I don't know where they get their funding from, but I would not be surprised to find that it is the same groups that fund New Ways Ministry. (Even the names of these groups are designed to deliberately confuse people.)<br /><br />Anyway, I like your approach of contacting priests that Fortunate Families claims are supporting their cause. Some of them may not be aware of the full extent of this groups activities.<br /><br />Now that FF has come out in full support of "homosexual marriage", isn't Bishop Clark forced to condemn their activity? Shouldn't he demand that they end this support since it demonstrates their "lack of adherence to Church teaching on the morality of homosexual acts"?Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-2515298507160980562011-07-07T23:26:08.028-04:002011-07-07T23:26:08.028-04:00Thanks Ben. I'm reading your article now.Thanks Ben. I'm reading your article now.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-54594483821764790392011-07-07T22:57:13.149-04:002011-07-07T22:57:13.149-04:00Michael,
Thanks for this article. You might be in...Michael,<br />Thanks for this article. You might be interested in another I just posted at CleansingFire:<br /><a href="http://cleansingfiredor.com/2011/07/local-priests-support-anti-catholic-organization-fortunate-families/" rel="nofollow">http://cleansingfiredor.com/2011/07/local-priests-support-anti-catholic-organization-fortunate-families/</a>Ben Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11895692497752102851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-4304670336689849382011-07-05T23:31:12.758-04:002011-07-05T23:31:12.758-04:00@Dr. K
Bishop Clark never comes right out and say...@Dr. K <br />Bishop Clark never comes right out and says it, but he clearly would like to see the Church change its doctrine on homosexuality. There is a reason why the Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful. One day we are told that we must accept homosexual men, then homosexual women, then bisexuals then transsexuals. First we are supposed to accept homosexuals in a monogamous relationship, then in a "mostly" monogamous relationship, then in an "open" relationship. What next? Is sadism OK? Is pederasty OK?<br /><br />We're all called by the Church to be chaste and to control our appetites and desires. This is not simply about abstaining, because that implies a dichotomy between the mind and the body. We are called to nurture the virtue of chastity in whatever vocation we choose. There is "equality" in the teaching of the Church. There is no "discrimination". We all face similar challenges, whether we are priests or nuns or married or single.<br /><br />This teaching of the Church is so counter-cultural as to be "radical". This is a teaching that can have great appeal for young people if properly taught by people with the conviction that comes from faith. Young people love ideas that are radical and challenging.<br /><br />Bishop Clark is promoting or at least tolerating the cult of sex which is the anti-Church. Sadly, young people are being initiated into this cult at an increasingly younger age. No, there is not a "black mass" initiation ceremony, but the effect on the faith of our young people is still devastating.<br /><br />To counteract society's message on sexuality, the message of the Church to young people must be "Chastity, Chastity, Chastity!" (Not "just say no" or abstinence, which are poor and ineffective substitutes for the Church's true teaching on this subject.)Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-32787686796281643102011-07-05T22:57:47.382-04:002011-07-05T22:57:47.382-04:00Thanks Mike. I was beginning to wonder about that ...Thanks Mike. I was beginning to wonder about that myself.<br /><br />That also answers another question I had about the name, because I just happened upon a book called "Cleansing Fire". It was recommended by Father Miguel Rodriguez in one of his homilies.<br /><br />If you're interested, you can learn more about the book here:<br /><a href="http://cleansingfire-thenovel.com/TableofContents.html" rel="nofollow">Cleansing Fire</a>Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-64139693249990885962011-07-05T22:39:25.536-04:002011-07-05T22:39:25.536-04:00Michael,
Your readers should know that I am only ...Michael,<br /><br />Your readers should know that I am only a small part of CleansingFireDOR.com. <br /><br />There is more about our site <a href="http://cleansingfiredor.com/about/" rel="nofollow">here</a>, although some of the info is slightly out of date: There are now 14 of us involved in this project.Mike Sheahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05152225895101756147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-16737913047211678412011-07-05T20:39:31.643-04:002011-07-05T20:39:31.643-04:00@anonymous. We are all "disordered" in s...@anonymous. We are all "disordered" in some way or another. And we are all called to be chaste in our vocation, whether that is religious life, married life or single life. A priest must have a profound love of God that supersedes all love for earthly things. This has nothing to do with sexual inclinations. This has to do with giving up all false idols.<br /><br />Take a look at Father Corapi. He was not able to live up to his priestly vows because of his love of money and the pleasures of the flesh. Those sinful pleasures don't have to be sexual they can be love of material things, or a need to be popular or famous. Anything that separates a priest from a total love of God will diminish his capacity to be a good shepherd.<br /><br />Any sacraments conferred by a priest, even if he himself is not living the life he should, are still valid. This is true for example of those priests that have been found guilty of sexual molestation.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-1339321481363168012011-07-05T19:39:43.947-04:002011-07-05T19:39:43.947-04:00In order to be ordained a priest, the candidate mu...In order to be ordained a priest, the candidate must reflect the humanity and bodily image/psychology of Christ. Homosexuals do not have this because their condition is intrinsically disordered and inclines them towards evil. The pope must dclare all homosexual men who claim to be priests and bishops as being invalid in their ordinations and all sacraments conferred by them as null and void.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-83602240136934644742011-07-05T17:12:12.273-04:002011-07-05T17:12:12.273-04:00@anonymous – Thanks. It's good to know that th...<b>@anonymous</b> – Thanks. It's good to know that there are others that are concerned about the state of the Church. It's easy to take things for granted until we are faced with a crisis like the push for "homosexual marriage".Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-14241194548075663062011-07-05T17:05:50.738-04:002011-07-05T17:05:50.738-04:00I just got through the two links that you provided...I just got through the two links that you provided. It's much worse than I thought or could have ever imagined. It's not just about bringing active homosexuals into the Church. It's the whole agenda to destroy and dismantle the Roman Catholic Church through "reform". This is at best misguided and at worst diabolical. Like most heresies, it lies somewhere in between. It is <a href="http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2011/07/heresy-of-americanism.html" rel="nofollow">Americanism</a> all over again.<br /><br />Bishop Clark has developed ambiguity into an art form. He hints at but never fully states his support for women priests and homosexual marriage. He also implicitly rejects the authority of the Pope. He shows no appreciation or respect for the traditions of the Church. He seems to have no understanding of the fact that this is the Church founded by Jesus Christ. It was not established to be in conformity with Man's wishes, but to be a visible reflection of God's will on earth.<br /><br />He wants to create a new "church" based on a mistaken liberal concept of "equality". He seems to share most of the views of secular humanists, except that he expresses them in the language of the Church. The result can be very confusing, which results in a type of theological <a href="http://publicvigil.blogspot.com/2010/04/good-bad-and-cognitive-dissonance.html" rel="nofollow">"cognitive dissonance"</a>.<br /><br />If his vision ever became reality, it would be only a matter of time before the Church would wither on the vine as we are watching the Episcopalians do in our day.<br /><br />Thank God for the Pope. This demonstrates the vital importance to the Church of having the right persons installed as bishops. Who says the bishops don't have power?Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-38310686044934896662011-07-05T16:50:16.654-04:002011-07-05T16:50:16.654-04:00An excellent article. Thank you for writing it. I ...An excellent article. Thank you for writing it. I am bookmarking your site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-19201717901649043742011-07-05T15:19:51.989-04:002011-07-05T15:19:51.989-04:00Thanks Mike. I'm going to check out the links ...Thanks Mike. I'm going to check out the links you provided.<br /><br />For my readers. Mike's blog is called CleansingFire and he writes about issues affecting the Diocese of Rochester New York. You can visit it here:<br /><a href="http://www.cleansingfiredor.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cleansingfiredor.com/</a>Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204113920771985325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7519955364880984061.post-59240338601728643492011-07-05T14:24:23.923-04:002011-07-05T14:24:23.923-04:00Michael,
Good article!
I would just add that any...Michael,<br /><br />Good article!<br /><br />I would just add that anyone interested in more of a general overview of Bishop Clark's tenure in the Diocese of Rochester might want to look <a href="http://cleansingfiredor.com/2009/10/30-years-of-bishop-clark/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Also, <a href="http://cleansingfiredor.com/2011/04/the-church-the-women-and-the-bishop-want/" rel="nofollow">this talk</a> given by the bishop provides some insight into what he has been working toward for over 30 years now.<br /><br />- Mike at CleansingFireDOR.comMike Sheahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05152225895101756147noreply@blogger.com